Retention Edge E30: Why Your Best Customers Convert (And Everyone Else Doesn't)

Most ecommerce brands think they have a traffic problem. They think the answer is better targeting, better creative, more ad spend, more traffic.

Brian Massey has spent nearly two decades proving that what they actually have is an on-page problem.

This week on the Retention Edge pod I sat down with Brian Massey, founder of Conversion Sciences, to talk about what separates brands that convert from brands that just get visits.

Brian's been running conversion optimization since 2007. No paid media, no growth hacks, just figuring out why people aren't buying and fixing it.

He shared some killer advice for ecommerce brands - which only gets more important as ad costs go up and traffic becomes more scarce.

Here are Brian’s top tips on CRO, testing, mobile-optimization, AI and more:

Stop Testing Random Ideas

Brian's biggest frustration is brands that run optimization like a brainstorm session.

They meet once a week, someone throws out an idea, they test it. The test is inconclusive.

They do it again. After a few months of flat results, the whole program dies.

The fix is boring (and that’s why most don’t do it).

• Start with the data.

• Look at where people are actually dropping off.

• Watch session recordings.

• Study heatmaps.

Using this data, you’ll form an accurate hypothesis and have something real to test.

Brian said something that stuck with me:

Even the experts get it wrong most of the time. The difference is they let data narrow the list before they start spending resources.

The industry standard is one winning test out of seven. Brian's team hits one in three or four. They don’t have better ideas than everyone else, they’re just better at filtering them to increase hit rate.

Your Product Page Is Probably Your Best Landing Page (Treat It Like One)

Brian's team has had real success turning product pages into something closer to a landing page. Not the typical layout of image, title, price, add to cart, done. Instead, leading with a hero section, then expanding into more visuals, more copy, more context below.

Whether that works depends on the purchase. The more considered the decision, the more information you need on the page. Emotional, impulse-type purchases need less.

But the underlying point is that most product pages are lazy. They're just data fields rendered into a template.

Brian's argument is that your product page is the most important landing page on your site; especially for paid traffic. Treat it that way.

A few specific wins he mentioned:

• Images with callouts baked in. Borrow from the Amazon playbook - overlay the value proposition onto the images so people don't have to read the description.

• Sticky add-to-cart on mobile. Keep the button visible as they scroll. Simple, but it works.

• Ratings and reviews, including bad ones. People look for the worst-case scenario. If the worst review is about packaging, they'll buy with confidence.

Mobile Isn't Just "Desktop But Smaller"

We talked a lot about mobile, and Brian confirmed something I've believed for a while: most brands are still delivering a shrunk-down desktop experience on mobile and wondering why conversion rates are half of what they are on desktop.

His take: design mobile first, then expand to desktop. Not the other way around.

The specific problems he sees on mobile:

• Checkout forms are painful. Auto-correct changes things. On-screen keyboards are clunky. Every extra field is a reason to abandon.

• Single-step checkouts create cognitive overload. You keep scrolling and more fields appear. "This is going to take a while" kicks in, and that's when you start second-guessing the purchase.

• Hidden costs kill conversions. If someone has to fill out their entire address before they find out what shipping costs, you've already lost a chunk of them. Show estimated costs early. Better yet, offer free or flat-rate shipping so there's no surprise.

Mobile conversion rates are about half of what they are on desktop. But the problem isn't that people don't want to buy on mobile. It's that filling out forms on mobile costs more cognitive energy.

Every friction point withdraws from a limited bank. Make too many withdrawals and people talk themselves out of it.

AI Is Changing Copy, Not Strategy (Yet)

Is AI going to disrupt how we do CRO? If so, how (and how much?)

On the strategic side; analyzing data, watching session recordings, building hypotheses; AI isn't there yet. No agent can replace an experienced optimizer who knows what to look for.

But it’s already making a difference on the copy side.

Brian’s team uses LLMs to rewrite product descriptions in different voices for different audience segments.

The power move is not getting AI to write “better” copy. Your team can do better. But with AI, you can test multiple versions of copy across hundreds of products consistently. A human copywriter can't do that at scale without drifting.

Signals That Drive Retention (From Day One)

Brian made a point about brand identity that I think most retention-focused teams miss:

Retention starts with signaling who your brand is for.

Not after the first purchase. Not in your post-purchase email flow.

On the homepage. In the navigation. In the product descriptions.

Buying from a brand is joining a tribe. People come back because the brand signals their in-group. If your site looks and sounds like everyone else's, there's no tribe to join.

The practical advice is to look at your navigation bar. If it says "Shop" and "Discounts," it's not telling anyone what you stand for. Replace it with specifics - what you sell, what you promise, what makes you different. Use your product descriptions to reinforce the same identity.

"Help me know what group I'm joining," Brian said.

That's the foundation. You can't retain someone who never felt like they belonged in the first place.

Summing Up

The through-line from this conversation: stop guessing.

Whether it's what to test, how to lay out your product pages, or who your brand is for, let data and clarity do the work.

Decisions made on data will always beat those built on guesswork.

You can catch the full episode on YouTube or Spotify. Wherever you watch or listen, I’d love it if you could like, comment and share if you found it useful.

I’ll back later this week with more to help you grow & scale your brand the right way.

— Pietro

PS - Want to see what your store would look like as a mobile app? Get a free preview here, or shoot me a DM on LinkedIn.